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Author Topic: why won't my wheels stay true?  (Read 1382 times)
david p.
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« on: April 11, 2008, 05:56:24 PM »

hey guys/gals... calling all engines!

why won't my wheels stay true?  i'll true them, check the spoke tension, then in a day or two some of the spokes are CRAZY loose.  i've never had this happen before, though i've had the wheels now for 18 months or so, probably put about 5K-6K miles on them.

they aren't anything flashy, probably embarrassingly boring.  standard alex 4850(?) rims   32H.  came stock with the bike.

is it likely that these old souls have played their role and now need to be retired, or am i missing something?  I'd say this started occurring within the past two weeks.

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Art
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 10:29:17 PM »

Well...

Standard Physics says that one of a few basic things have to be occurring for this to be happening to you, Pulse..

     --your spokes are stretching (highly unlikey)
     --your hub is expanding (again,... not likely)
     --your spoke/nipple threads are slipping (more likely)
     --your rims are caving-in (most likely)

Yoli had this happen to her very recently, and the culprit ended up being that the 'eyelets' or nipple-sockets in the rims were overstressed, and concaving inward. (she said with a magnifier you could see lots of little micro-fractures around the holes)  There's also a pissibolity that your spoke threads are stripping on a few over-stressed spokes. (if this is the case it will happen more frequently with less riding each time.)

Examine your rims carefully, look for evidence of movement... If you don't see any, try to 'track' what's happening with each wheel by 'marking' the problem spokes, each time you adjust them.  If the same spokes start showing up as the same trouble-makers each time, try replacing them (nipples too!) and see if that fixes it.

Sometimes the cause is materials failure, most of the time the cause is over-tightening.  When the materials won't meet our extremely high demands, we must either lessen our demands, or improve on the materials.  Always remember to loosen when you true, as well as tighten, and this will happen far less. (or get some composite rims - no spokes at all!!)

Of course...

With alternate Theoretical Quantum Physics, your spokes, rims, nipples, hubs, etc. all may gain their very existence purely through your mere observation of them...  So if they're screwing-up, then all you have to do is observe them better, dude !!!  (..squints eyes real hard!! )     Afro

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david p.
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 11:12:37 PM »

art... thanks for the information.

i have a feeling it is the same spokes.

other factors:
does it matter that i'm a bigger lad (ie, 210 lbs)
32H as opposed to 36 spoked wheels
that its a fixed gear bicycle, so there's more stress on the wheels?

so, replacing the nipples and spokes is an option, or that the rims are caving in, ergo , i probably just need new wheels?
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Art
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 11:38:09 PM »

art... thanks for the information.

i have a feeling it is the same spokes. 
other factors:   ...i'm a bigger lad; ...32H as opposed to 36; ...fixed gear bicycle..?
(...etc...) ...ergo , i probably just need new wheels?

New wheels is the easiest way out, yes. (But don't give up too quickly!)

The fact that you're heavier, that there's less spokes together with what I'd call 'normal' (rough) riding in L.A. are likely contributing factors.  If you were gonna get new wheels, try going 36 spoke, single butted with the longer nipples and some heavy-duty rims.

Or... Carbon fiber ! (eg: Spin, Specialized, Aerospoke, etc.) But very pricey ... !!!
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psmith
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 12:47:36 AM »

they wouldn't happen to be the spokes on the drive side rear, would they?
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psmith
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 02:37:52 AM »

Never mind, I figured out why: your toeclips are feeling lonely and neglected since you developed a passionate foot-fetish for your new-falutin' clipless pedal thingamabob doohickies. At night when you are asleep, the pining pair sneak up to your bike and make love to your wheels, causing the spokes to shake loose in a frenzied climax. Close inspection with a magnifying glass should reveal small traces of chrome dust in the nipple region. Placing the criminal clips in a dark closet will not provide a lasting solution; what those pesky preverts really crave is to be bound up really tight with a toe-strap. If they're chrome, use black leather, preferably French or Italian, but Japanese will do in a pinch [NJS not necessary]. If they're rubber, it's OK to use nylon. For best results, place an old pair of smelly socks and/or shoes in the clips and the sneaky saboteurs will be harmlessly distracted for quite some time. Make sure to replace the shoes and socks with a "fresh" smelly pair every 28 days in accordance with the Mens-True-All Cycle. If they are well behaved, every once in a while you might show them some L.O.V.E! -- strap 'em on and ride 'em really hard until their toes curl, so to speak.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 10:42:38 AM by psmith » Logged

david p.
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 08:58:10 AM »

psmith

it's happened on both the front and rear wheels.  i think it started with my front, but my rear wheel is definitely a culprit.
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psmith
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 10:43:04 AM »

toe clips!
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Steve Mattson
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 09:48:14 AM »

I go along with Art's assessment.  The psycho-sexual approach is profound, but the rigid, socially responsible nature of Chinese-made rims would have those nipples back in place by morning time. 
There is a good chance all the spoke tensioning that has taken place over the last 18 months has stressed the rims, like in the case with Yoli.  You may be over tensioning...
It might be time to invest in some touring grade rims and spokes.  36 hole sound like a good idea.  Velocity, Salsa, Mavic do some good touring/cyclocross/29er rims.
Was there ever a time when the wheels got significantly warped/bent/dinged, requiring a lot of spoke adjustment to compensate for the damage?  This might have been when the cancer began.

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Alex Thompson
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 12:25:29 PM »

David - have you asked Mike W about it?
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david p.
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2008, 09:11:03 PM »

alex,

i haven't asked mike w. but that's a good idear.
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Wilkie
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 02:10:50 PM »

David,

Sorry to hear about your issues with spoke tension.  What kind of hubs and spokes do you have?  You said the wheels came stock on your bike?  What kind of bike is it?  I don't believe your size or weight has too much to do with the problem.  I am 200 lbs. to 220 lbs. depending on the season and run 32 spokes, double butted, 3x for mountain biking and have had no problems.  The issue at hand probably has more to do with the workmanship.  Your wheels are probably machine built, maybe house brand spokes, and it sounds like they have never been tensioned properly.  I would be happy to take a look at your wheels with you.  I am in on Thursdays or you can leave me a message on the forum.

Mike
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david p.
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 03:54:49 PM »

man, mike - you come out of the woodworks for me? thanks buddy... that was your second post of all time...

here are the specs on my spokes... and wheels.

these are the specs from the fuji website:

rims:
DRX 2000 Double Wall Road Rims, Black w/CNC sidewalls, 32H

hubs:
Fuji Alloy Track, 32H Flip flop
Fuji Alloy Track, 32H

spokes:
Stainless, 14g


i'd say i've broken close to ten-twelve spokes on both the front and rear wheels since i've had the bike.  four months into owning the bike i got the rear wheel replaced for free from my bike shop, with a brand new stock wheel.

i've now procured another bike so this bike has become the backup - still... i'd like to get it in running order so it can be a reliable back up.

i'll bring it in and we can have a look at it.


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