chains

[buttrumpus]

so here's a question on something i've never been too clear on: which size chain can you use with which size sprocket?

now it's obvious enough that chains made for cassettes with few cogs cannot be used on cassettes with more, i.e. a 6 speed chain on a 10 speed cog, due to the difference in width. but, does the rule hold true in the opposite direction? could you use a 10-speed chain on a 6-speed cassette, or something along those lines.

i have to assume in some cases the chain would be too narrow and might shift poorly. but, the reason i ask is my bike, a typical 10-speed with two chainrings up front and a 5-speed cassette in the rear, could use a new chain. as i search the internet i don't find many built for 5-speed cassettes.  instead, most chains say "max number of speeds", or something along those lines. so, where does the max number of cogs on a cassette overcome the usability of chain?

bring on your smart-ass answers.

[Gern]

Great Question
I will look into this.

Get a new cassette(make it a currently selling multi speed), and chainrings, when you get a new chain.

I'm sure my statements here will raise the debate.

You can take this as a smart ass answer, but it is not meant to be, it just is a debate of sorts.  Many people may disagree with me over this, but My years of NORBA racing and officiating history says replace everything the chain touches, as the parts all wear, and if you don't replace everything the new parts may/will wearout fast or not mesh nicely.  So as with so many things, it comes down to money.  The only reason not to replace the entire transmissions cost.
Remember, the rear deraillier pulleys.  Some times they are the first to creak & moan, and cleaning them is enough to get less drag and maybe the first problem.  I will be talking to KHS Monday, I'll ask about chains & cassettes.  Let's look at this Monday Nite.  By the way I'll give you a ride home with your NEW RACK!!  Yes it's true, you are the winner of free freighting.  Come On!
Ride On
Gern

[Art]

Yes, great question !

Regarding sizing of chain-width to sprocket-number, the reason you would want a wider chain with fewer cogs vs. a narrower chain with more cogs, is the spacing IN-BETWEEN each cog on the cassette.

For example, if you were to use a narrow width chain intended for say 8 or 9 speeds, on a 5 or 6 speed cassette, there's a larger chance that during shifting, the chain can get find itself a nice little home in-between the cogs (occasionally even getting jammed in there pretty bad) and leave you in a bad position while pedaling... !!! 

The other way around, with a chain that's too wide for the spacing between the rear cogs, can have the effect of jumping more than one-cog-at-a-time when trying to shift. (sometimes with certain tooth-designs, it can even shift in and out of gear by itself !


I hope this helps a little bit with choosing your chain-size.

[Jaz]

So then with a single speed it doesn't matter?

[Gern]

Answer to chain Question: if the "pitch" is correct(spacing between chain pockets & cog teeth, and chian ring), so as the chain rides properly without skipping,slipping or riding up on the top of the teeth.

[Art]

So then with a single speed it doesn't matter?

Well, there's always the issue of just having WAY more metal on a bike-part than there needs to be for the part's given purpose...  Which would be the case if you were to put an extra-wide, heavy-duty, BMX chain on something as gossamer as a single or a fixie...

...otherwise, aside from 'pitch' like Gern said, nope! it doesn't matter.

[Alex Thompson]

So then with a single speed it doesn't matter?

Well, there's always the issue of just having WAY more metal on a bike-part than there needs to be for the part's given purpose...  Which would be the case if you were to put an extra-wide, heavy-duty, BMX chain on something as gossamer as a single or a fixie...

...otherwise, aside from 'pitch' like Gern said, nope! it doesn't matter.

But Art, if you're riding brakeless (madness) then a chain break spells death, or injury.  Wouldn't you want the additional pin and plate width of a track chain?

[Art]

Well...

...depends on how much I weigh, I guess...   

But really, he had asked about a 'single-speed' Alex, not a 'fixie'.

However I do grasp your desire for the thicker plates/pins, just
not for any 1/4-inch wide rollers...   

[Alex Thompson]

Well you know that some people use the term "single speed" to broadly apply to bikes with one speed.  I have 26 usable gear combinations on my bike so I'm not the best guy to take part in that discussion.

[Art]

...mmmmmmmmm...

...gears....

I have a nine-cog rear cassette, and three front chainrings, so
how many  =usable combinations=  do I have ?

[Jaz]

I used singlespeed as a catchall term for fixed gears + freewheel single speeds. I didn't think there would be a difference. now I am curious, if I was going brakeless, or even just not wanting to use my brake, bigger chain = better?

Or what?

[Art]

Well, Uncle Sheldon (Brown) has posted on his site that the most common is to use a 1/8" Track chain for singlespeed and fixies: [http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains-wide.html]

BUT...

He also says here: [ http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html ]

1/8" or 3/32" Chain?

    Many track bicycles use a wider chain than is common on multi-speed bicycles. Derailer-type chain has a nominal internal width of 3/32". Single-speed bicycles, including most track bicycles, use the wider 1/8" size. You can buy fixed-gear sprockets in both sizes.

    (Some people mistakenly refer to the width as "pitch", speaking of "road pitch" or "track pitch". This is an error. The pitch is the distance between the rollers, and all modern bicycle chain has the same pitch, 1/2"/12.7 mm.)

    I would generally advise using the 3/32" (derailer) size. It is lighter, more compatible with your existing chainwheels, and likely to run smoother if the chainline is less than perfect, due to beveled side plates. In my experience, 3/32" chain is no less durable or reliable than 1/8".

   
I guess that being a smaller guy, and having never broken a chain, I've always gone with the narrow, but it apparently also depends on the thickness of your chainwheels.   (...and on just how "gonzo" you ride !!?)

[Alex Thompson]

Ok, well Sheldon Brown obviously has a lot of credibility.

On the other hand, 10 speed chains, if you break them and don't use replacement pins, will come apart sometimes.  Similarly, they can sometimes simply break or crack at the plates.

So my guess is there is some point at which the chain is too thin and there is a risk.  Maybe not at 3/32, but somewhere beneath that as you get up to the 9 speed and 10 speed chains.

Given that bikes get bumped and abused out on the street . . . if I was riding fixed I'd accept the minuscule addition in weight and drag and do with a track chain.

[buttrumpus]

alright dudes and dudettes,
 i've done some research into the subject, and i think i've come across a pretty good rule of thumb. it seems that in cases of cassettes with less than 9 cogs, using a chain one size smaller will work.
i.e. for 5 or 6 speed cassettes, a 6 speed chain will work. likewise for 7 or 8 speed chains, an 8 speed will work.
of course if you can match them up properly that is best, but this rule seems to be what most 'experts' go by.
for singlespeeds, sheldon seems to have his shit together, but use an 1/8'' chain cuz that's the standard.

now argue!

[Art]

alright dudes and dudettes,
 ...a pretty good rule of thumb.

...for cassettes ..less than 9 cogs, ...chain one size smaller will work.
[i...]
for singlespeeds, Uncle Sheldon seems to have his shit together, [...]
...use an 1/8'' chain cuz that's the standard.

now argue!

...argue? No way, man...  I'm convinced!   
Good rule of thumb. (or whatever digit you choose for the occasion...) 
I guess I just have to admit that I'm a weight-weenie after all...   Damn..!